Limiting CAS (SOLVED)

  1. 8 years ago

    In my current missions, I'm feeling like CAS is a little too OP. Before I remove it entirely, I'm wondering if there would be a way to limit it, or maybe it already works this way?

    I have one CAS chopper at base and I seem to be able to use it any time I ask and just let it obliterate the enemy. I like the idea of having access to it (it's realistic). But I'm wondering, would there be any way to set it up so my other force pool units could maybe be already using it on their virtualized missions so maybe every once in awhile it's "not available" because it's already on a mission or something? Or maybe some kind of cool down so I can't just spam it?

    In a perfect world, my one CAS chopper is available to all my squads and my request would be no more important than another squad's. Is this possible? Or does it already work this way?

  2. Edited 8 years ago by tourist

    Hi HeroesandvilainsOS,

    I read your invitation in BIS forums to join this exchange of mission building concepts and will gladly share whatever ideas I have!

    1) Just yesterday, I played the mission I was talking about with my buddy reforger. That setup has CUP Taliban as Insurgents with 200 men Civilian Objective Module+corresponding CQB and IED Modules synched to the Assymetric Commander. We really honoured our Callsigns and fought like Bears and Wolves, but due to my mission balancing, all we could achieve was a 2:1 bodycount (to the enemy's disadvantage) and the destruction of six of his vehicles while loosing four of our APC's.

    2) The 39 playable Bundeswehr units are divided into two 12 men Infantry squads, one 9 men APC+mounted Infantry Panzergrenadier squad, one two men sniper team and one four men MASH team. Around the main FOB, the MASH and the Artillery Base non-playable Bundeswehr units are placed as guard force. These are profiled with the Virtual AI Module and have their waypoints set to guard these Bases only.

    3) Without a BLUFOR OPCOM, all assets like Arty and CAS are always at my disposal. Although if I play alone, I can never rapidly deploy more than 12 men ground forces at once under my direct command. It is possible to recruit forces at the FOB though via Spyder Addons Recruitment Module, up to 24 additional US soldiers to help the BW units. Since there's Base Respawn, I never will run completely out of Infantry, but my ground Vehicles are gone if destroyed. Of course a replenishment via Spyder Addons could be implemented with a few mouseclicks.

    4) By setting the spawns of the Taliban to "random" and excluding only Air units, mechanized units and tanks, their forces will still include motorized units. Aaand... among these are ZU trucks with AA cannons and Landrovers with SPG9 AT launchers which CAN and WILL score hits on Helis! And of course independently of those vehicles there's always a probability for AA infantry with shoulder mounted AA launchers every now and then. This means a fat chance for the CAS Helis getting shot down if you fail to find, fix and fistfuck the OPFOR AA units before calling the CAS. We talked already about setting the respawn delay for CAS assets to 30 Minutes or whatever you see fit.

    5) Another option would be to put in a BLUFOR OPCOM - but I'm not sure if this commander will ever request those units that are synched to the Player Support Modules for his own purposes. There are various ways to bring units under an OPCOM Commander's control as the ALiVE Wiki states:

    "Commanders must have some troops to control from a synced Placement module set to spawn troops or some manually placed and profiled units."

    I haven't tried what happens if you sync the very same units to the Player Support Module AND to the Virtual AI Module - but maybe that could achieve the "Sorry, unit is on a mission for OPCOM already" you would like to see.

    6) Alternative idea: Don't give the player any Supports, but enable the Player Logistics Module which allows the player to request all kinds of reinforcements out of the BLUFOR OPCOM's force pool. These kind of supports will arrive with considerable delay, if at all. That might be more suitable to achieve a mission design goal aiming to make the player feel like being "only a small cog in the War Machine".

    I must playtest the above concepts of OPCOM usage myself first, but I suggest you do the same in your mission and we continue this exchange of mission making ideas - I'm really looking forward to that exchange!

    See you soon here or in the BIS Forums and Best Regards,

    tourist

  3. Epic reply! Thanks man. I may reply several times as I try to digest it all. Ultimately, I see what you're getting at. CAS is only realistic, fun and a balanced option if the mission is designed to be hard enough for it to be a valuable tool. Otherwise it would make more sense to just remove it entirely. Makes perfect sense.

    I use CAF Aggressors for my Taliban units. By design, they only are comprised of infantry units (which can shoot you down with their RPG guys), and pickup trucks with technicals. However, RPG dudes don't seem to spawn as much as I'd like. Thus, I don't have any huge deterrents from spamming CAS unless I increase their initial force pool numbers and just get overwhelmed. I'm thinking of now manually placing some additional RPG guys so it can work exactly this way: I want to have to THINK TWICE before calling CAS in.

    The mission itself is on FATA. It's a small map (5x5) which I'm finding increasingly difficult to balance. More on that in a sec.

    5) Another option would be to put in a BLUFOR OPCOM - but I'm not sure if this commander will ever request those units that are synched to the Player Support Modules for his own purposes. There are various ways to bring units under an OPCOM Commander's control as the ALiVE Wiki states:

    "Commanders must have some troops to control from a synced Placement module set to spawn troops or some manually placed and profiled units."

    I haven't tried what happens if you sync the very same units to the Player Support Module AND to the Virtual AI Module - but maybe that could achieve the "Sorry, unit is on a mission for OPCOM already" you would like to see.

    I'm wondering if anyone knows how to accomplish this? Would it be possible to give access to my CAS chopper to the OPCOM? I currently have a manually placed armed CAS chopper (for testing) synced to the Virtual AI module, but as of yet, I've never seen OPCOM use it. I was told this is the proper way by a few guys here. Can anyone confirm that I have this right? And secondly, could anyone conform whether or not it's possible for us to all share a single CAS chopper (meaning one I can cal in via support but also be used by OPCOM too)? If so, how would that be set up?

    3) Without a BLUFOR OPCOM, all assets like Arty and CAS are always at my disposal. Although if I play alone, I can never rapidly deploy more than 12 men ground forces at once under my direct command. It is possible to recruit forces at the FOB though via Spyder Addons Recruitment Module, up to 24 additional US soldiers to help the BW units. Since there's Base Respawn, I never will run completely out of Infantry, but my ground Vehicles are gone if destroyed. Of course a replenishment via Spyder Addons could be implemented with a few mouseclicks.

    Ah. I like this idea. What map is your mission on? Like I was saying about mission making on a small map like FATA, I'm finding balancing the initial Force Pools to be a real nightmare. Initially, I had my side set to 120 units (plus my squad. 60 mil, 60 civ), and OPFOR set to 90 units (30 mil 60 civ, plus three civ placement modules so they can recruit) but even then the map is too barren over the first 2 hours and any OPFOR I do stumble across are wicked small in numbers. My BLUFOR OPCOM must be obliterating then on mission start. If we average a unit consisting of 5 men (CAF has teams ranging from 2-12 men), that's 450 Taliban that should be spawning on this tiny map! You'd think I'd be up to my eyeballs in terrorists! :)

    As a response to this, I did try I dropping my forces to 60 total (plus my squad) and increasing the Taliban to 130 and NOW FINALLY the map feels populated. CAS finally becomes a viable option again. But my gut says 120 Taliban units (so around 600 estimated guys) is WAY overkill on a map like FATA. Especially considering they still need to recruit civs.

    What I'm thinking now is maybe bringing the Taliban forces back down to 90 units and just getting rid of BLUFOR OPCOM all together. Just like you. I like what you're doing. You have all the tools at your disposal and it's your squad against the world. It's a good idea.

    Question. When doing this, are any of your manually placed units out on the map fighting their own objectives without you at all? I can definitely add some squads and sync them to the Virtual AI module. Is it possible to also have these manually placed units under OPCOM's control? If so, how? Is syncing them to the virtual AI module enough? I doubt it. Would I sync them to OPCOM?

  4. The map is Kunduz - that's a 10x10 area. I have set the Taliban Placement module to 200 initial fighters; these numbers can easily get surpassed by them recruiting from the civilians.

    I have placed only one Civilian placement Module though. Still, the Taliban spawn in large numbers just outside the little 2000x2000 m or for smaller camps just 1000x1000 m sized "security bubbles" around the Bundeswehr Bases and camps; they fiercely attack whatever daring patrols venture away from the relative security of the camps/FOB's.

    I think that without BLUFOR OPCOM the profiled units will just remain stationary and defend. Any campaigning into enemy territory would require an OPCOM to order them so, as I understand. I'll test what happens if I have an OPCOM that is synched to the Taliban Military Placements (Civilian Objectives) Module and if I place some profiled (synched to Virtual AI Module) units without waypoints.

    For some totally weird reason, CAF Agressors no longer get recognized as ALiVE group compatible Faction in my setup and therefor turn into CSAT; so I switched to CUP Taliban instead. These have their various AT/AA capable vehicles spawning in sufficient numbers, because I set the force weighting to "random" and only excluded tanks, helicopters and air units for the Taliban spawns in their Military Placement Module.

  5. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Yeah man let me know how the manually placed units work out for you! :)

    The map is Kunduz - that's a 10x10 area. I have set the Taliban Placement module to 200 initial fighters;

    You must mean 200 units, not fighters, correct?

    Kunduz and FATA should play out similarly all things considered so I like your idea of limiting the BLUFOR strength and going balls to the wall with initial OPFOR strength. For now I just may go with only a 30 unit civ BLUFOR module and as a result, make my playable units much higher in numbers. If only the AI wasn't so stupid to not be able to drive I'd look even more forward to leading a large (playable) AI squad! :)

    So CUP Taliban is working well with ALiVE, eh? For some reason I thought there was a problem. Which faction are you using? And since they don't have civilians, what civilian class are you going with?

    Anyway, doing this stuff should make CAS a necessity again and not a cheat button. I'd still love to figure out how to get OPCOM to use CAS support though. Like I said, syncing a manned CAS chopper to the Virtual AI module doesn't seem to do anything. The same goes with manned vehicles. They just sit there and never move.

  6. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Here's a quote from the wiki. I can't really figure out if this is designed to do what I'm looking for though. Or if it's just the standard method of the player getting access to their own support without the use of the corresponding module. The way it's written is a little confusing. The part bolded in particular:

    It is possible to place crewed vehicles in the editor and sync them directly to the CS module, allowing editors to sync additional editor modules to them. Put the following in the init line of the synced vehicle:
    Required for Combat Support and Transport:

    this setvariable ["CS_TYPE","CAS"]; //Type can be "TRANSPORT" or "CAS"
     
    Optional:
     
    this setvariable ["CS_CALLSIGN","Your Callsign"]; //Callsign of the unit
    this setvariable ["CS_HEIGHT",_height]; //Altitude of the landing site
    this setvariable ["CS_CODE","persistent _code as 'string';"] //custom init line code
     
     
    Required for Artillery or Mortars:
     
    this setvariable ["CS_TYPE","ARTY"];
     
    Optional:
     
    this setvariable ["CS_ARTILLERY_HE",50]; //Number of HE Rounds.  Can be HE, ILLUM, SMOKE, GUIDED, CLUSTER, LG, MINE, ATMINE, ROCKETS
    (note that not all arty vehicles can use all the ammo types of course)
  7. The code you cite above from the wiki is indeed only for making crewed vehicles available as supports for the player.

    Regarding the units: I can use CUP for civilians also. These classnames are all available at the wiki under "Supported Factions - CUP" where the Taliban (called "Takistani Militia") have CUP_O_TK_MILITIA as faction name and the Takistani civilians have CUP_C_TK as faction name.

  8. Yeah I figured. Have you checked offhand if syncing a manned helicopter to the Virtual AI module is enough for OPCOM to command the AI to use the vehicles? I'm still wondering if it needs to be synced to something else.

    Yeah, I think my issue was a balancing problem. I dropped my Force Pool initial spawn to 30 units on FATA, increased my playable units to 16 (two squads. 10 infantry and a 6 man sniper unit), increased OPFOR to 130 and got freaking decimated and shot down several times when using transport. I didn't even dare to call inCAS. RPG's were flying with fury! :)

    Thanks for all the help. Things feel better now.

 

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