How to select insertion point of Air Supplies on player logistics

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  2. 8 years ago

    Please do note that this reply is not only about Air Supplies (as the topic suggests) but more about the logistics insertion points in general.

    I'll bump this one since, unlike Evul there, I haven't went through the ALiVE wiki (yet at least). Since this thread seems to have gone unanswered let's see if we could knock one down.

    Few questions:

    • what is the logic behind how ALiVE decides where to make the insertion for player requested troops?
    • is there any chance to affect where the player requested troops are inserted by ALiVE? (such as custom insertion point)

    I'm using Iron Front (lite) to create a mission on the map Staszow and since the scenario is WW2 its appropriate to mainly use convoys to distribute troops for the players. It just seems that where ever I request troops to be delivered by using convoy option their insertion always happens on the south-east corner of that map.

  3. Friznit

    3 Jul 2016 Administrator

    Logistics is all part of the same Military Log system . Whether it's the AI Commander or the Player requesting resupplies, it comes from the same place. So the AI Commander must have an HQ objective from which he can organise replens. If you set this logistics module to dynamic, the Log HQ will move to the nearest high priority objective. If it's static, it'll pick somewhere near the Mil Placement module.

  4. Does ALiVE work in such a manner that it would be best to have only one HQ (per side)?

    I don't seem to be making much sense out of the dynamic/static thing other than that it's not working like I would like to see it working (kek). Well ok, I understand that static works: insertion point is selected from the closest objective (closest to the military logistics module) with the highest priority. Dynamic on the other hand.. I don't know, results seem to be varying too much.

    I was hoping that if you'd have set up two equal (=same priority) custom objectives and set them both as HQs the logistics insertion would happen there where player is closest to at the time of requesting troops. This probably isn't possible at the moment? If so could it possible be in the future?

  5. Tupolov

    3 Jul 2016 Administrator

    STATIC = Location convoys/choppers etc start from the objective nearest (at mission start) to the MIL LOG module. The objective must be under side control and in "reserve".

    DYNAMIC = Location start is the closest held objective in "reserve". The state of the objective is key, you won't get reinforcement start there if the objective is under attack etc.

    The actual start point can vary (up to 2km) around these locations based on delivery type and if players are in range.

  6. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Is there any console command to force a situation in which OPCOM requests reinforcements? Perhaps there's a way to delete profiles or something?

    I have a mission sent out to some people for testing and I'm getting reports that they aren't getting any battle casualty replacements. I've been at this for a quite some time tonight and I see what they're saying, I can't get BCR's either.

    I think the issue might be instances in which the player's friendly virtualized units aren't holding objectives so OPCOM isn't sending anything. I think you need at least one objective held to get BCR's, correct? And even if you fall well below the threshold for needing more troops, you won't get any if you don't hold anything, right?

    But just to be sure, is there a dev way to coax a battle casualty replacement situation or do any of you have any advice how to quickly figure out if the system itself is working in a mission?

  7. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Yeah I really think I'm missing something here. I have it set to infinite troops with a replenish threshold of "constant." The type is set to dynamic. I started with 20 BLUFOR groups in my operations section in my tablet.

    An hour has passed. I have 8 BLUFOR groups and am holding 2 objectives (they are "occupied") and OPCOM still hadn't requested reinforcements.

    I can ask for logistics no problem. But I can't figure out why OPCOM won't replenish my troops.

  8. Friznit

    4 Jul 2016 Administrator

    Details on the wiki http://alivemod.com/wiki/index.php/Military_Logistics

    Log is getting some Tup love in the next update but it should be working fine still

  9. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Thanks Friznit but I've read through the wiki. I know for sure it's working with vanilla; I get the radio chat message frequently that reinforcements have arrived.

    I really don't think it's working in one of my Assymetric missions on Takistan though so it's making me wonder if I'm utilizing the map correctly (it has very few military objects). I let the mission run several times, sometimes for upwards of over an hour and not once were they ever replenished.

    Even changing it to static, moving the mil log module near a mil objectiv, holding the objective and placing an HQ there is still getting me the same results.

    I know you can't troubleshoot this for me, but Is there any really fast way to get to a point where OPCOM will request reinforcements, aside from putting the virtual AI speed to 125% and changing some waypoints to a mil obj? The process of telling whether or not it is working is very very cumbersome. Are there any in-house debug commands I can use to "kill" profiles with just to try and speed the process of troubleshooting this up?

  10. Test in SP and crank up the speed to 4x

  11. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Where do you crank it to 4x? Isn't the highest 125% in the Virtual AI module? I'll double check, I'm not at home.

    Also, I'm wondering, is it possible what I'm seeing on Takistan is "normal" because OPCOM doesn't deem any of my objectives important enough to resupply from? From the wiki:

    Dynamic - LOGCOM chooses the best insertion point from available friendly held objectives. High Priority objectives such as airfields and military bases with heli pads are preferred. If there are no suitable locations, LOGCOM will look for low priority military establishments or marine civilian locations (sea ports). These have a significantly lower logistics capacity than major military bases and resupply will take longer.

    Basically, there's two airports. One is the base I spawn at (which is not in the AO. I don't let any troops at all spawn here) and the other is OPFOR's main starting point and stronghold. It would be very very hard for us to take this over in the beginning.

    Is it possible since I'm not "holding" either airport, OPCOM simply cannot resupply me because all of the other objectives on the map I can hold are just too small?

  12. Friznit

    4 Jul 2016 Administrator

    @HeroesandvillainsOS  Thanks Friznit but I've read through the wiki. I know for sure it's working with vanilla; I get the radio chat message frequently that reinforcements have arrived.

    No, I mean there's info on how to generate test reinforcement runs at the bottom of the page.

  13. Sorry by 'crank it to 4x' I mean speed up the playing time while previewing - start the mission and hit the + and - to increase/decrease game speed.

    With regards to your BCR question yes that is possibly what is happening - if there are only small/low prio objectives it might not give you anything

  14. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    I'm assuming what I'd want from the wiki is the "standard" logcom request script to test the BCR's? I don't see a "test_ML.sqf" file on the scripts snippet page though so I take it that means I'd need to write it.

    It's ok. I have a feeling it's just a matter of the objectives being too small in the general AO on Takistan, aside from the one airport OPFOR usually holds. I'll try the 4x trick (I was unaware you could do this. Thanks Savage!) and if I have to, I'll add the airport I spawn at to the main AO too. I bet that's what I was doing wrong and that will work, at least if I'm understanding the wiki entry properly.

  15. Edited 8 years ago by SavageCDN
    To test a standard logcom request:  execVM "\x\alive\addons\mil_logistics\tests\test_ML.sqf"
     
    To test a airdrop logcom request:  execVM "\x\alive\addons\mil_logistics\tests\test_ML_AIRDROP.sqf"
     
    To test a heli insert logcom request:  execVM "\x\alive\addons\mil_logistics\tests\test_ML_HELI_INSERT.sqf"

    The test .sqf files are part of the ALiVE install - no need to write them just execVM them from your debug console et voila!!!

  16. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Ah sweet!!! I should have just asked way earlier yesterday. I wish I could get 4x of my night last night back. ;)

  17. @Tupolov STATIC = Location convoys/choppers etc start from the objective nearest (at mission start) to the MIL LOG module. The objective must be under side control and in "reserve".

    DYNAMIC = Location start is the closest held objective in "reserve". The state of the objective is key, you won't get reinforcement start there if the objective is under attack etc.

    The actual start point can vary (up to 2km) around these locations based on delivery type and if players are in range.

    Thanks Tupolov for this additional, short and concise explanation.
    When I get to flesh out my mission a bit more and finally get to extensively test it I'll be sure to keep one eye on where player requested troops will get their insertions with how I currently have set up the mission to see what kind of dispersion there will be between different insertion points.

  18. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Ok sweet. The issue is solved. I had to include the airport base I spawn at in the TAOR section of my mil/civ obj modules. I put the marker name I use to keep civilians out of my base in the TAOR section and I had reinforcements within 30 minutes (like 7-8 minutes real time thanks to the 4x cheat.:) ).

  19. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    So I've been making my first ever conventional battles. One vanilla, one modded. What I'm trying to do is, well, I really enjoy filling as much of the maps as possible with profiles and objectives so I can go in any direction and just explore, knowing danger could be around any corner while I begin the gameplan of taking objectives.

    Basically, I don't usually let several KM go without some chance of stumbling on some fighting. These are full map warfare missions. I'm currently setting both sides to Invasion so I'm not sure if that's ok or not. I've also messed around with Packets and Constant but anyway...

    Both missions have a nice even spread of two sides trying to take objectives from one another in the beginning. However, when resupply (BCR's) begin occurring, I'm seeing some the landscape change.

    What's happening is, both sides demolish the other pretty evenly (I intentionally try to make both sides equal in strength) for the first 30-60 minutes. Troops on both sides spread out nicely. However, when it comes time to resupply I'm noticing the map pretty much split in two; BLUFOR on one side and OPFOR on the other. Both holding their own large military objective so they can get their replacements (I realize most maps spread large military objects out so I realize there's not much that can be done about that).

    So when this happens, and BCR's start raining down from the skies, the maps in both missions are essentially void of any fighting, leaving large swaths of KM after KM just completely barren. BLUFOR on one end, OPFOR on the other. I'm actually ok with this - I like how both sides seem to be "regrouping " - however it seems to take a very very long time for the BCR units to get given any waypoints.

    I'm noticing it takes maybe 15 minutes for all the reinforcements to touchdown and get set. However, even though both side's military objectives where they are resupplying don't have any opposing fighters, ALiVE seems to need to make sure the objectives where the BCR's are is considered "occupied" again - even though it was occupied at the time of replacements - before giving the new troops new waypoints.

    I'm seeing in the neighborhood of 45 minutes before the maps begin to get peppered with troops again. I'm not really complaining (I does feel realistic), but when I'm out on patrol this time can essentially lead me to do a whole lot of nothing for miles and miles and miles before I have some opposing troops to counter again. So all I can think of doing is maybe just taking an objective and holding it for a bit. I guess taking advantage of the "empty map." However, without the virtual AI module being debugged, I don't think the average player would have any clue wherever they were heading would be empty.

    I'll have to take a screenshot or two to show you what I mean.

    Again, this is more of an observation than a complaint. I'm sure getting OPCOM to give these BCR troops waypoints faster would just hurt performance and I don't want that. Though I wonder why the resupply points, which can be void if opposing forces, isn't already considered "occupied" when troops are already there. I mean it is, but then it's not as the resupply comes and then needs to be "occupied" all over again. Maybe it's just me? It just seems to prolong the process a bit.

    Anyway, sorry for the rant. I noticed this and was wondering what you guys thought.

  20. How do you have the MIL Logistics module configured?

    I think what is happening here is 30-60 minutes into the mission the initial 'big clash' is over.. and both sides get a large lump of BCRs at the first opportunity. OPCOM runs in 'cycles' so the units will sit there until the next OPCOM cycle in which the AI commander will take them into account and assign orders. I'm betting this will smooth itself out over time as groups get eliminated at more 'staggered' times rather than within a short period @ mission start.

  21. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    That's a good point. My impressions are just from the first battle wave plus the first attempt at resupply on both sides, which in two instances happened at the same time (which I'm sure is what is making the map feel barren). I bet you're exactly right that as the landscape changes and we establish our respective objectives, the missions will take a nice new "shape." I'll have to let one run for a few hours and see how it looks.

    I really really like the idea of Packets for both OPCOMS, but I've tried both Constant and Packets with varying degrees of success - of course this "split battlefield" thing I'm sure is more pronounced with Packets, especially if both sides are equally strong in profiles and ability.

    In brief testing, Constant reinforcements seems to shift the evenness of the battlefield quite a bit in the early stages. If one side gets replenished while the other quite hasn't, when the replenished side gets back to full strength they just goes on a tare and decimate the opposing side for a bit.

    Of course, that probably isn't a bad thing because that's the way war is; one side has the edge until suddenly they don't anymore. I'll have to spend more time with each option to see which is right for me. :)

    I'm loving it though. One of the missions is vanilla(ish) on Altis and I forget how great that map is to explore! It's awesome.

    All in all I think I'd appreciate it if the OPCOM cycles happened faster, but I also don't mind things being "slow" and just exploring - especially if cycling OPCOM would hurt performance (I can't see how it wouldn't. It definitely would not be worth the trade off if that's the case).

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