Asymmetric Warfare win conditions?

  1. 8 years ago

    So, say I want to build a mission using the Asymmetric warfare AI commander set up for an insurgency style, long play mission.
    I am a neophyte to mission building, so this will be via module placement for the most part.

    What exactly are the mission finish parameters for players? Is it killing all the insurgents that spawn via placement and from the reinforcement pool? Is it clearing all areas and securing them via destroying IED factories and HQ's?

    Exactly what do players need to do to get a "win" for the campaign?

  2. I'm wondering this too, actually. And along with that, for the Assymetric AI commander, where is the reinforcement pool size specified? I know we can define the initial unit size via platoon/company/etc, and I know that they also recruit from the civilian population which can really only be defined vaguely. Does that mean the reinforcement size can't be specified like it can in a conventional battle?

  3. Edited 8 years ago by SavageCDN

    There is no hard-coded 'win' parameter with ALiVE - this you would have to add yourself via scripting or a task system. The documentation for ALiVE APIs is a bit of a work-in-progress but for example you could have a script detect when an installation is destroyed and trigger a win condition. Or create objectives yourself (ie: kill the HVT) outside of the Asym settings.

    edit: you are correct regarding the reinforcement pool Heroes.. you can't specify an actual amount. I'm also not 100% sure if the Asym can 'use up' all the available civilians or if ALiVE will just keep spawning civs and turning them to the dark side ;)

  4. Turning them "good side," Savage"CDN." Good side. My troops need some hope that the Taliban will one day be defeated. :)

  5. Interesting. So some sort of win parameters have to be scripted in? Well, I certainly won't be doing that heh.
    I guess I'll be using ASW as a backdrop for an Ongoing Campaign setting interspersed with Actual missions run by a Zeus until I can get a win condition figured out.

    Also, regarding a reinforcement pool: I was under the impression that one of the Logistics modules gives a pool for AI commanders to draw from. Does that not work for the ASW commander?

  6. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    I think a traditional Assymetric OPCOM is strictly going to recruit their forces from the civilian population. Which is what I love most about it because the overall task for my side is not only destroying the terrorists, but winning over the hearts and minds of the local populace. And I really like trying to replicate the kind of real world war (think Afghanistan 2009-ish) where the war is never really over but forces are there on a permanent basis. ALiVE simulates this really well! Though I could see how not having a typical end state could be discouraging depending on your goals.

    I suppose you could sync a Military Logistics module to the Assymetric OPCOM (I don't see why not but I honestly don't know for sure), but at least for me it wouldn't really make sense because typical insurgencies wouldn't have access to all of that logistical manpower. And then they'd be pulling not only from their own resources, but civilians too. I'd have to imagine the results of that would be insane but I also don't pretend to be an expert on this stuff.

    From what I've seen in other people's missions, creating an "end state" trigger for when all enemy units and HQ's are gone doesn't seem that complicated. But I haven't actually tried this myself or even looked at the scripts themselves too closely.

    I really like your idea for adding additional tasks via Zeus! That's a tool I've never bothered learning. It sounds like when your done, you'll have a very special mission on your hands. One I'd love to play!

  7. I'm also not 100% sure if the Asym can 'use up' all the available civilians or if ALiVE will just keep spawning civs and turning them to the dark side ;)

    They won't run out, they are kept for the immersionz. They will however run out in the sense that it won't just endlessly recruit civilians as long as the HQ is active, it will eventually cease operations as to prevent too much spam.

  8. Well, If I use the Zeus aspect it will be to run live Ops on the server with everything else in the background being run by ALiVE.

    I'll see if I can get one of the mission builders in my unit to help me with win conditions. Like above, maybe set something for destroying the HQ or a set number of IED buildings. Maybe multiple HQ's held by the Insurgents.
    Then, while doing clearing ops looking for those objectives, do Zeus led ops.

  9. I found using a "points" system works the best.

    Basically the win condition is to get to 100 points.

    Each kill and facility destroyed has a points value attached, for example 1 per kill and 20 for a facility.

    However, the Insurgents makes you lose points for every recruit they have and facility established. I found that it worked great because it would require you to prefer to hit multiple targets at once rather then piecemeal. Since the insurgents would slowly recover over time.

  10. If you have questions on how to do things with ALiVE post them here ie: trigger that detects when all ALiVE profiles are killed and ends mission. As I mentioned the documentation for ALiVE's internal magic is a WIP but someone should be able to help you out. Also search these forums and the BIS forums as someone has probably already asked the question.

    @SpyderBlack723 - thanks for clearing that up

  11. I'd be interested in a trigger for when all the profiles are killed. I'll take a look around but if anyone has one handy that would be great. It seems reasonable to at least use this one seeing as the mission would be over anyway without enemy profiles.

  12. Check this thread:

    http://alivemod.com/forum/1256-best-way-to-end-mission-in-large-scale-assault

    Also the ALiVE wiki has some examples:

    http://alivemod.com/wiki/index.php/Script_Snippets#Detect_Virtual_Units_.28Profiles.29_in_a_Trigger_Area

  13. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Is that all this is is a trigger? Nothing else like adding any lines or files to my mission root or whatever? I literally add this to "Condition": if (isServer) then {count ([getposATL thisTrigger, 15000, ["EAST","entity"]] call ALIVE_fnc_getNearProfiles) == 0 && {count ([getposATL thisTrigger, 15000, ["EAST","vehicle"]] call ALIVE_fnc_getNearProfiles) == 0}} else {false};

    And this on "Activation": if (isServer) then { ["end1","BIS_fnc_endMission",true,true] call BIS_fnc_MP};

    With a trigger the size of my map (adjusting the "15000" to suit my map size) and viola! I have an end game trigger? What happens at the end, do I get a default "mission complete" line like I would in SP?

  14. Yes and Yes

  15. Wow. You guys are great. Thanks Dixon and @therealSavage!

  16. @Silentghost, can you PM me with the details of how you set that up?
    I am trying to set up a COIN style mission on Takistan for my unit using ALiVE. I would like to have it use the ASW AI commander to simulate the ongoing insurgency, but would like to have a win condition if the unit puts in enough time on the map doing patrols, hitting targets etc.

    It looks like Insurgent HQ's, IED factories and Recruitment centers will be built according to the AI commander, with no way to set a total number on them. Is that so?

    So, setting a trigger for a certain number of profiles to be killed. Will those be counted from the recruited Insurgents or will those come from the placed units in the Mil Placement (military Objectives) module?

  17. Maybe someone could make a sample mission real quick and post it here. I can't do it myself as I am at work currently.

  18. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    What are you asking for? A mission with this stuff already in it or any mission at all? I have some PBO's in a Dropbox with some (really crappy) ALiVE missions in it if you want.

  19. @ski2060 @Silentghost, can you PM me with the details of how you set that up?
    I am trying to set up a COIN style mission on Takistan for my unit using ALiVE. I would like to have it use the ASW AI commander to simulate the ongoing insurgency, but would like to have a win condition if the unit puts in enough time on the map doing patrols, hitting targets etc.

    It looks like Insurgent HQ's, IED factories and Recruitment centers will be built according to the AI commander, with no way to set a total number on them. Is that so?

    So, setting a trigger for a certain number of profiles to be killed. Will those be counted from the recruited Insurgents or will those come from the placed units in the Mil Placement (military Objectives) module?

    I will be getting my new computer this coming Thursday, I'll remake the mission since I'm not really a coder and can't recall my scripts off the top of my head (They were really sloppy.) >.<

    Basically it all came down to two variables. *Maxscore = 100; and Score = 0. I then added conditions that either added + a number to that variable, or - a number. Every unit was worth 1 point, and every factory was worth 20. So essentially I wouldn't have to worry about rather they are new units, or pre-spawned ones. Simply killing one gave me a point. I also added conditions that detected when the proper AliVe functions of spawning new units from recruits, and establishing new factories happened which caused point losses. The latter part my friend helped me with.

    *I'm using 100 as a example again. I believed I tweaked it to some odd number because I found how easy/hard really depended on the size and scope of your mission.

  20. @silentghoust (sorry I missed that U), I can wait. I am no coder either. I am just getting into mission making myself, and have no coding/scripting knowledge.

    I was thinking of the win conditions that you posted up (destroying the facilities, killing fighters) to simulate the players winning the whole "hearts and minds" war.
    While that is going on, I'll be adding in the random missions from Task generation to simulate Kinetic action against camps or insurgent targets that have been located with military equipment and such.

    I wonder if you can set a trigger to spawn a battle scenario once you reach a certain number of points, instead of just a "Mission won @X points" ?
    Like say, at X points the populace has been won over so much so that they give you intel on the hideout of the main insurgent leader, or their main camp?

    Or even set up a TAOR in some part of the map that has a more conventional force dug in to simulate a Warlord stronghold with major forces there (AFV's, Armor, mortars) etc...

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