NewClan Problems/Questions

9 years ago
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Numrollen
11 Nov 2015

Edited 9 years ago by Numrollen
Hey, for years (mso, thearmainterview...) now im following your work, trying to get our mission makers to use alive for our modset and in mission. Now we are getting into it, im really interested. Its just THE best service in arma3. Thats it! I hope i can help you with this post and get the idea. Im glad about alive as is, dont get this wrong. So i just will write here some stuff what reaches me from our clan members (and inside my brain) about the "first" real contact with it.
System:
- Warroom account not synct with this forum. You need 2 accounts for beeing alive ;=)
- Warroom Worldmap is crowded, many inactiv clans, no good overwatch what clans are active in our country using alive.
- Warroom "looking for group" is a bit confusing, search dont work.
- You cant apply to a clan over their clan page and dont see in the clanpage what they stand for and see their application text.
- Warroom dont accept our domain. it contains a "ä" and is very long, so even our official email adress i cant use (more then 32 chars). At the moment i use a http://xn-- but this dont looks good ;)
- Signature dont work? [IMG ] http:/ / www. alivemod com/api/sig?id=xxxxxxxx[/IMG], we need to add .jpg so it looks like: [IMG ] http:/ / www. alivemod com/api/sig?id=xxxxxxxx.jpg[/IMG]
About statistics, we are not after the kill/death ratio, more about the: What did we wrong, what can we do better, what needed to be trained. ATM @ warroom "personal" i just see "loading..", so perhaps it is already there ;)
- Is it possible to see how effective a player/unit/utility was on (only) THIS mission? At the moment i only see global statistics over all missions and a live view of a specitic mission, is this right?
- More statistics possible? how many civilians were killed (friendly ones) ? e.g. % of the mortar hit rate (appears in the AAR as soon as a player entered the "tool"? So we can see in the after action report how well this tank was or this group of players? Or, i dont know if there is a statistic data about an ai was suppressed by player actions -> % of how often this player suppress an ai (changes of stances?). No better idea ;)
- we are using ace3. this mods statistics wont be availible for alive data right? How often 1 person get woundet and received medical aid? And in comparison what group needed the most medical aid and so on?
- we are using BWMod and RHS. What happen with this statistics? Alive dont know all these i think?
i will end here, i think enough blah.
Friznit
11 Nov 2015 Administrator

Hi numerollen - good feedback, thanks! Some of this stuff we are aware of and is on our roadmap (clearing up the database of old clans for example). We're working on developing statistics and After Action Reviews, as well as making the War Room functionality more useful for clans in general but our main effort to date has been the core functionality of ALiVE so it's taking time.
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Numrollen
12 Nov 2015

With this "mod" i dont doubt you are full of ideas. Hopefully with more and more alive missions coming up i can/will report more if there are any usefull informations from the players.
Tupolov
12 Nov 2015 Administrator

Keep the feedback coming! Thanks for your post, it means alot that the mod is appreciated and people are keen to see it grow!
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Numrollen
14 Nov 2015
we had an "test" event tonight. 99% build with alive, we were 21people.
- 400 opfor ai , 200 bluefor ai fighting with us a city that were held by opfor. we used 1 Hc on a 4770, SSD, 32GB Ram machine.
- 2 heavy laggs where even the arma server monitor stopped showing live data.
- the alive live feed show only "72" enemy killed? On a tank with 3 people only the commander the kills.
- some vehicles "freezes", they didnt react on infantrie or our tank, others did very good (against our infantrie)
- i love ALiVE Performance Monitoring
- most ai where alone and cluttered all over the field. I dont know how they normally react to a tank but most time with over 500m they didnt notice it even our tank were shooting all round the place.
- with maximum of 348 ai "spawned" we had the hole time 35-46fps BUT only 1-6 cps.
here the server rpt:
https://mega.nz/#!cZUDBBZB!DGMuaFjJC8jAwOk1Vy3Gk9G9A56nBhUQqmbdo8FUd8U
Tupolov
15 Nov 2015 Administrator

You started with 6CPS - this is usual at the start of any mission as everything syncs. Its also not usual to get drops as units get spawned and then it bounces back.
During the mission you had 39 CPS
"perfMonitor.fsm message sent: [["Type","Data"],["FPS",45977],["FPSMIN",37037],["CPS",39106],["PLAYERS",21],["LOCAI",0],["REMAI",64],["Active",29],["Inactive",24],["Units",287],["PVehicles",32]]"
There was a period where you had 200+ AI spawned and running and CPS drops to 1. ALiVE can't do anything about the Arma engine limits of number of active AI * player count when it comes to CPS. In general, you should aim to have less than 200 actively spawned AI.
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Numrollen
15 Nov 2015

Edited 9 years ago by Numrollen

i know you can only do with arma3 what arma3 can do. This is no critic, only feedback. If this helps you im glad ;)
39 CPS? cant be. I looked @ arma3 server monitor live on my 2nd monitor while in the mission and after the mission i checked ALiVE Performance Monitoring and he tells me the same.
We startet with ~43cps and ended with 38cps but most time of the 3h session we had 1-6.
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6!268&authkey=!AFupgkRC6yrDSOc&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
all ai where on HC (beside 3-14 while spawning).
To get this turn around: Only a few players had performance issues, the most are really impressed! No yellow chains, only the 2 heavy laggs (but no red chain). The ambient was good and for our first "bigger" performance heavy Missions it runs great! Its still a longer way then i expected to bring all missions builders to alive :P im working on it.
Tupolov
16 Nov 2015 Administrator

Edited 9 years ago by Tupolov
I wouldn't recommend running ASM and ALiVE Perf monitor, as that will impact performance. The checks they run can be intensive, so either one or the other.
We do appreciate your feedback, please don't take our response the wrong way :) Just wanted to state that we don't expect high CPS when AI goes above 200.
For the first 45 mins your CPS was above 28. Once you increased AI on the HC above 190 and local AI went above 10, CPS crashed to 1 etc. CPS recovers as AI decreases.
http://i.imgur.com/99cOzmU.png
You are correct in that your CPS was 1-6 after 45 mins (sorry I was looking at the logs first 45 :) )
Interesting to see that HC didn't improve things that much, other than keep FPS high on server, CPS is still impacted by high AI count. CPS is the number of conditions evaluated per second in "unscheduled" environment, AI reaction may be impacted here when low.
Are you using the group spawn limiter with ALiVE Virtual AI to try to keep AI count down?
Now to some of your other feedback
Warroom account not synct with this forum. You need 2 accounts for beeing alive ;=)
Warroom Worldmap is crowded, many inactiv clans, no good overwatch what clans are active in our country using alive.
Warroom "looking for group" is a bit confusing, search dont work.
You cant apply to a clan over their clan page and dont see in the clanpage what they stand for and see their application text.
Warroom dont accept our domain. it contains a "ä" and is very long, so even our official email adress i cant use (more then 32 chars). At the moment i use a http://xn-- but this dont looks good ;)
Signature dont work? [IMG ] http:/ / www. alivemod com/api/sig?id=xxxxxxxx[/IMG], we need to add .jpg so it looks like: [IMG ] http:/ / www. alivemod com/api/sig?id=xxxxxxxx.jpg[/IMG]
1. We are short of web dev resource atm, good idea about the 2 accounts! Will look at that.
1. We will start pruning the DB soon and that will eliminate inactive groups, but still we never planned on being so popular! ;)
2. Can you elaborate?
3. Join a clan via the Join Group function (search for the group you want then click Apply)
4. Will log it as a bug
5. Sigs work fine - don't add jpg otherwise your sig will never update.
Note my sig on BIF https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/159708-alive-advanced-light-infantry-virtual-environment/?p=2932007
I use:
```
[center]
[url=http://alivemod.com/war-room/showpersonnel/76561197982137286][img=http://alivemod.com/api/sig?id=76561197982137286][/url]
[url=http://alivemod.com/][img=http://www.vrcombat.com/alive_footer_white_1.gif][/url]
[url=https://www.facebook.com/pages/ALiVE-Advanced-Light-Infantry-Virtual-Environment/547638945305077][img=http://alivemod.com/img/alive_footer_logo1.png][/url][url=http://www.youtube.com/user/ALIVEARMA3][img=http://alivemod.com/img/alive_footer_logo2.png][/url][url=https://www.facebook.com/notes/alive-advanced-light-infantry-virtual-environment/twitch-streamers/547655988636706][img=http://alivemod.com/img/alive_footer_logo3.png][/url][/center]
```
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Numrollen
16 Nov 2015

Edited 9 years ago by Numrollen
- Ok, will go ALiVE Perf monitor on Alive missions then, for testing ASM is faster.
- on the low cps i would like to check out the HC data, how his performance look like. will this be a future feature?
- will alive support more then 1 HC?
- group spawn limiter yes, but this was also a performance test to see how well arma3+alive will do with so many ai's. So it was ok to spawn > 300 ai's.
- ALiVE Perf monitor -> arma3server.exe data will come in the future (cpu/ram/..) ?
- We will split HC <-> arma3server.exe on 2 SSD's to maximise performance but we will need to go on with testing to see when this low cps occure. We will test also the next days with alive only. I will report if im getting other results. Yes, some ais were really dump.
1. The group search function dont work reliable. If you search our clan with Clantag or the full name it dont work. (also the "ö,ä,ü makes problems? :P )
2. I know but would also be good to join over the clanpage and see all the infos on the page.
3. signature looks like our problem, will bomb our forums mod to look after it.
SpyderBlack723
16 Nov 2015 Moderator

Edited 9 years ago by SpyderBlack723

ALiVE does support multiple HC's. I believe just up the number by one when adding them the HC pool.
Friznit
16 Nov 2015 Administrator

I would love to see your server cfg and mod list. We run a similar setup (same server stats, HC, 25-30 players) but our server FPS often drops to 15. CPS is also low with ALiVE running (usually hovers around 4 to 5 CPS and often as low as 1 when the AI count gets too high). We have quite a few intensive mods though nothing out of the ordinary (ACE3, TFAR, ASR_AI, RHS).
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Numrollen
16 Nov 2015

Edited 9 years ago by Numrollen

So. First WOW Test tonight. Results:
1 Player (me), same mission as saturday, with same mods (except alive data): https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AKQKSl6xc1Y22U0&v=3&cid=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6&group=0&id=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6!271&parId=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6!270&o=OneUp
As expected: main server bad cps, headless client average fps (still ok for 437 ai's i think).
1 Player (me), same mission as saturday, without any mods (except alive & cba): https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AC3VlFBGuDLBJhc&v=3&cid=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6&group=0&id=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6!272&parId=E8CFBEE28DEF33C6!270&o=OneUp
Ok. Looks like our mods used on saturday needs much testing what mod is causing this bullshit. I hope not all. No freak mods used. :(
we used 2 days ago: -mod=@AllInArmaTerrainPack;@CBA_A3;@HAFM_A3;@HAFM_EC635;@JSRS2.2;@LeightsOpfor;@RAM;@RHSAFRF;@RHSUSAF;@ace;@bwa3;@task_force_radio;@ALiVE;
Friznit: http://pastebin.com/Bp6ATc2U
Friznit
16 Nov 2015 Administrator

If that's the full JSRS2.2 scripted version, it's a known resource hog in MP. The latest unscripted one is better when used client side only but the original JSRS2 and Dragonfyre generate a large number of virtual objects which are not very server friendly.
8 years ago

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Numrollen
30 Nov 2015

Next Report: We investigated the performance problem to about 90%. The most fps drops are caused by CQC module by house patrolling -> %. Even there arent much houses around, if you increase the percentage the more soldiers are trying to patrol the same house. We saw now in tests that AiA houses causes some strange behaviour where 20 ais standing in the front door, stuck.
We will do some more tests the next days because some strange results on some tests but i can say with HC its possible to have 300 ai's spawned without problem. This amount is needed if you do civilian traffic, civs in the city, enemys around idling and players are NOT on the same place. E.g. a coop 40, your people are gonne be on more then 1 place and of course this will lead to more ais. We cant imagine bigger scenarios with non-HC.
Will report a more detailed one the next days.
Friznit: No, our server dont load JSRS, this was just our client mod list. Server loads e.g. asr_ai most of the time.
SpyderBlack723
30 Nov 2015 Moderator

Note that even clientside, scripted versions of JSRS can cause issues for everybody
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Numrollen
5 Jan 2016

So we already used alive now and i got some more feedback and questions ;) Before the text: thx, it really is such a big help and offers so much. I love this macro management and let alive micro the rest. I hope i can release a mission with alive to get this proof! ;)
1. The Military Logistics supply for requesting vehicles: too much folders and subfolders if i only whitelistet 2-3 things. For a campain i just want to start small and the commander can only call 1 small apc and 2 ammo boxes. when i use RHS i need to click through 200 folders to find this APC (the com even dont know what he CAN call on the first time he look into the tablet) and 100 folders later he can find the ammo boxes. Also drop of an vehicle is too affected by the wind. On strong wind they get blown miles away ;) I also want to limit that he can call only 2 times this APC and 5 times the ammo. This combined with "persistence", i dont know how to do.
2. Persistence: is it possible to make a new version of the mission and still all saved data can get loaded? E.g. we builded a outpost, cleared 30% of the map, made 2-3 operations, got all supplies we got. Now we want to play Month2 after begin of this operation. Eh... ;) I want a massive mission that can last 3-4 months for our clan and evolves the hole time. Like gamemode:domination but with own build tasks, outposts, changing enemys (opfor and blufor fighting together, then getting enemys blah). I dont think it is possible to build all this static so the best method for me would be another version of the mission edited.
3. Own build outposts by hand is a bit a pain because the Hesco's only get 1 at a time into the truck and can cause heavier loading times i think when everything is persistent and we build 3-4 of them. What is the best way at the moment to "build" an outpost to a selected area? Best would be patrouled by friendly forces and of course attacked at any time but it needs to be big enough to get in all the logistic stuff we need and 4-6 vehicles for patrols.
4. Arma2 buildings really is a pain to your CQB or even with a taor marker over custom military areas. On Airports they patrol over the runways.
5. What is the best and fastes and the one with best immersion way to secure our starting base? Yes i can build lego with arma editor and/or i can place Military Placement (Custom Objectives) around. But my problem: Are all these objectives (MG bunker, mil house, patrol around this base, gate or road blocks on the base entrance) used by friendly ai to this this base a real feeling? Or need i still takes days to micro all this secure stuff per hand?
SavageCDN
5 Jan 2016 Moderator

For Question #2:
War Room uses onLoadName (in description.ext) as a unique id for recording stats.
Persistence uses the mission.pbo filename as a unique id for saving persistent states.
For example:
To keep the same Stats and Mission Persistence, keep both onLoadName and Filename the same.
To reset Persistence but keep Stats (for example, to retain stats across a campaign of several ops), change the Filename only.
To reset Stats but keep Mission Persistence (for example, to record separate stats for each session), change the onLoadName only.
To reset both Stats and Persistence, change onLoadName AND Filename.
None of these effect the mission name that shows in the game browser (which is set in mission.sqm) so you can call it whatever you want.
#3: Have you tried integrating R3F Logistics instead?
Place a gamelogic on the map named LOGIC_ALIVE (or you can simply name the ALiVE (Required) module ``LOGIC_ALIVE). You need to add the following line of code to R3F_LOG\objet_deplacable\relacher.sqf at line 12:
[LOGIC_ALIVE,"updateObject",[R3F_LOG_joueur_deplace_objet]] call ALIVE_fnc_logistics;
#4: Not much can be done unfortunately.. .it's a combination of non-enterable A2 buildings and even some enterable ones that don't have house positions configured for AI. The runway patrol groups are usually groups spawned by the AI module not CQB (in my experience) although I suppose if buildings are close enough to the airstrip you might get some dudes wandering :)
#5: Not sure I understand your question can you explain further?
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Numrollen
5 Jan 2016

#2: thx, clear now!
#3: Hmm no and i dont like to use external scripts again, i try to stick with mods and ALiVE. Just an idea: Take 3 Supplytrucks, load them with XYZ (Fake supplys) and at the place you can take out perhaps pre defined stuff for bigger outposts? This stuff already with ai path and places ready.
#4: ok this is not really a bug, just again as a info. e.g. arma2 bunker is filled with 5 ai (its warm in here) and they get stuck. Perhaps a filter would be nice to prevent placing > 4 beside each other within 30cm?
#5: I make a campaign and we start from our homebase. For a mission you need to decorate this base, you need to make it look like a mainbase. Just take one of the airports from altis (not the main big one). They look more like a amateur landing area, not as a military base. I just want to ask if there are ways that alive can help me get this base builded nice, with realistic feeling, with ai patroiling around the base and uses military buildings (look-out i need to place). And all that FAST. As i said i like ALiVE to manage all this micromanagement, i just want to macro. So im not that lego building guy that want to plan a military layout over 5 hours.
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HeroesandvillainsOS
5 Jan 2016 Moderator

Heh. Number 5 is something I would love. My base building skills suck and it takes me forever to decorate. The longest part of mission making, actually.
Though I don't see how ALiVE could generate this stuff for us in a way to cater to everyone's individual needs. Would love to be wrong on that though. You should see some of my monstrosities.
SavageCDN
5 Jan 2016 Moderator

Edited 8 years ago by SavageCDN

#3: some good ideas perhaps once ALiVE 1.0 is released this kind of thing can be expanded on
#4: there are certain buildings which are blacklisted by ALiVE to avoid weird spawning issues like the one you described. Those small green A2 military towers are a good example where it will spawn multiple guys in the single tower position then they end up falling out when attempting to use the ladder :) If you find one of these buildings please take a screenshot or even better determine the object name (ie: annoying_bunker.p3d) and post back here.
#5: I don't think there is anything in ALiVE that will help you with this.. other than the pre-done compositions you can spawn at custom military objectives. As Heroes mentioned above it would be almost impossible to account for every type of base/location/map. I know you said you don't like using external scripts but R3F Logistics might be something to look into. That or using Zeus in-game.
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