ALIVE is (might be) DESTROYING my frames...

  1. 4 months ago

    -image-

    Is this what 30 active profiles looks like?

    -image-

  2. Something is very wrong there. I play with a larger number of profiles on a HD Graphics (sad) with 45 fps

    Is this mission running with other mods? Try without them! Only ALIVE + CBA.

    How are the modules of your mission? Could you send a print from the editor or possibly send the mission PBO?

  3. Our MilSim units mod list.

    -image-

    The mission.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=12sxOCP3wZtkvTENN1FH4xkqiiUUnS5LW

    With the mod pack, on any mission not using ALIVE my rig handles fine, 40-50 FPS solid, on any map. Tested it with a few missions. The moment I add alive, it shits out bad. D:

    Really hope I can fix this.

  4. Edited 4 months ago by marceldev89

    You have both ASR_AI and VCOM loaded, I doubt that that's a good idea. Besides that the current VCOM has an issue where it'll basically slow down the entire server due to some infinite loop which is currently being looked at/fixed by the VCOM dev.

    Other than that, if you can reproduce the problem with just CBA and ALiVE then it's our issue. If not, then it's not (probably). ^^

  5. VCOM AI and ASR running togheter will create so much conflict Yeti

  6. Holy mods. :( Also why are you running 3den Enhanced when playing?

  7. SavageCDN

    Mar 29 Moderator
    Edited 4 months ago by SavageCDN

    Is that your server mod list? Are you running a dedicated server or hosted?

  8. Yes, and we do run this on a pretty powerful dedicated server. 3den Enhanced is not on while playing, it's in the list for the other devs, so we are all building with the same tools. Even though 3den creates no dependency, most of the guys are learning to create arma missions for the first time, so I like to set them up with the proper tools.

    ASR and VCOM should work together fine, as ASR doesn't touch squad level AI if I am not mistaken. However, if VCOM is indeed in a state which creates a infinte loop, spawning 30 profiles would indeed cause some serious issues. I don't know how it would affect rendering THAT bad, but this is Arma.

    I am going to remove VCOM from the mod list, and do some more testing. Spawning 10 units statically in the editor, I did see similar issues, but not to the severity it occurs with alive (which I am guessing is due to the profiling).

    Lastly, Can someone verify, in my original screenshot, I have alive set to 30 active profiles... Is that correct? I do not wan't a ton of AI, or some elaborate ambient battles.

    Thank you all for the help, I will reach out to the VCOM dev, and see if he has tracked down that issue.

  9. The solid colors indicate spawned profiles. The opaque colors indicated profiled profiles.

    Limiting to 30 in the Virtual AI module is also very low and can cause undesirable behavior. The default is 144. I’d recommend staying as close to the default number as possible, and increasing performance/limiting profile spawns in other ways instead, such as decreasing the playable area size, or decreasing the group spawns, or increasing the objective filtering in the civ/mil Obj Placement modules.

    Also, I’d really recommend trimming back the mods, by a lot. I’m counting 6+ mods dedicated just to gear lol.

  10. Trust me, I have advocated trimming the mods as well.

    RHS series for the various factions
    Tryk for our unit's uniforms (we are a PMC)
    NI Arms for OUR weapon systems

    SMA Is set to be replaced(removed), however it does give us the mk18's, which some members enjoy.

    I am guessing none of you have been in any large milsim units, because this is honestly a VERY humble mod-list.

    I only want 30 groups of AI on the map at any given time, to limit the amount of time the AI FSM's take up the scheduler, what undesirable behavior would I see? 144 active groups of AI is a INSANE number, and I feel it's just a terrible benchmark.

    Content mods (spec4vest, TAC VEST, TRYK, and the various Weapon Mods) also should not impact the performance of ALiVE. If these do, will someone please explain why?

    Obviously you folks do not want to download my mission with the mods, I will re-create it with just ALIVE + CBA tonight, and forward that for testing.

    Again, thanks for the quick response.

  11. Edited 4 months ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Unintended consequences of lowering the Virtal AI spawns are this, from the wiki:

    Making a mission with a lot of Virtual AI then artificially spawn-limiting them is inefficient and may get weird results, such as units spawning in behind players and moving into areas already cleared. Best practice is to reduce the density or number of Virtual Profiles in the Placement Modules to improve performance.

    I understand you like mods. I’m not judging you, so please don’t judge us by saying we don’t play in online coop groups, lots of us do. It’s just using that many can cause issues, we’ve seen it time and time again. Very very rarely is it ever determined to be ALiVE was the source of the problem when that many mods are loaded.

    You have a choice: From the perspective of the help you will get here on ALiVE forums, you can either clean up the mod list or deal with the performance and conflicts.

    And no problem, I will help in any way I can. Just please understand that the amount of mods you are using makes it extremely hard to figure out what the problem might be. Try your ALiVE and CBA only test mission idea and let us know if things are still performing badly.

  12. AUTigerGrad

    Apr 3 Moderator
    Edited 4 months ago by AUTigerGrad

    @Yeti
    I am guessing none of you have been in any large milsim units, because this is honestly a VERY humble mod-list.

    I haven't been in a large milsim group...but I have run my own server for 3 years and built about 293874832 missions using 294874578239 mods.

    I only want 30 groups of AI on the map at any given time, to limit the amount of time the AI FSM's take up the scheduler, what undesirable behavior would I see? 144 active groups of AI is a INSANE number, and I feel it's just a terrible benchmark.

    The chances of actually getting 144 groups virtualized at once are slim to none unless you have a player in 30 different locations on the map at once. I've used the default with 1 HC on my server and my server FPS rarely dips below 35.

    If you drop the group levels down, what COULD happen is that you'll have enemy AI spawning in behind you or on top of you which is not good.

    Content mods (spec4vest, TAC VEST, TRYK, and the various Weapon Mods) also should not impact the performance of ALiVE. If these do, will someone please explain why?

    They don't. But running VCOM on top of VCOM AI Driving on top of ASR AI on top of ACE absolutely will affect your server FPS. And Running ASR AI in conjunction with VCOM AI is a very very bad idea. On top of that...I can verify that as of right now, Dominic (Genesis) has some code cleanup needed to be done on VCOM because after running for 6-8 hours on your server, it will cause your server FPS to plummet and will negate your ability to save your server as well. It's still the best AI mod out there IMO, but needs an update and Genesis is trying to get his Dissension mod pushed before he updates. So I'd recommend dropping VCOM for the time being.

  13. Friznit

    Apr 3 Administrator

    I run a milsim unit and I agree that mod list is fairly typical. However, I also agree that multiple AI mods shouldn't be necessary. Both mods do similar things with AI and knowsAbout values, and VCOM adds waypoints to simulate flanking attacks etc so one or other should be fine (in fact we use AI mods very rarely anymore).

    ALiVE will typically highlight existing performance issues because you are on average spawning many more AI and stressing the script schedule. Every AI will run multiple scripts - ACE, ASR, VCOM every time they are spawned. ALiVE is spawning/despawning all the time so while it's not the root cause of the problem, taken together with all the other scripts combined it can impact the server.

    Things that you can do include disabling any unnecessary scripts from running on AI that don't need it (you can disable ACE medical for AI, for example); disable VCOM/ASR on groups that don't really need it for your scenario; reduce the spawn range and/or build your mission so that it encourages all sub-units to operate in the same area so fewer AI are spawned at once.

    Incidentally, last time we tried using JSRS it utterly destroyed our server, even though it's technically clientside only. I know LJH has assured us that it should no longer be a problem but we're still on a no soundmod policy from way back.

  14. highhead

    Apr 6 Administrator

    ALiVE will only makes issues with other mods visible. If you run the same mission without any mods you will see it is working as intended! I suggest to reduce the mods needed to have your mission offer the intended gameplay to the absolute possible minimum.

  15. @AUTigerGrad They don't. But running VCOM on top of VCOM AI Driving on top of ASR AI on top of ACE absolutely will affect your server FPS. And Running ASR AI in conjunction with VCOM AI is a very very bad idea. On top of that...I can verify that as of right now, Dominic (Genesis) has some code cleanup needed to be done on VCOM because after running for 6-8 hours on your server, it will cause your server FPS to plummet and will negate your ability to save your server as well. It's still the best AI mod out there IMO, but needs an update and Genesis is trying to get his Dissension mod pushed before he updates. So I'd recommend dropping VCOM for the time being.

    I was suspecting that with our missions that we have been running as well; but we are going to do some more testing just to verify.

    However in the previous posts we can completely confirm that running ASR and VCOM together creates some bad problems with the AI scripts and honestly they should not be run together.

    @Yeti I am guessing none of you have been in any large milsim units, because this is honestly a VERY humble mod-list.

    Well; our community has had upwards of 75-80 folks running on ALiVE mission deployments in the past. There have been many times where the server was up for 3-5 days between saves without major issues. BUT we also kept the mod pack to less than 20GB of downloads for the players as well; not counting the Arma download.

    @Yeti Obviously you folks do not want to download my mission with the mods, I will re-create it with just ALIVE + CBA tonight, and forward that for testing.

    That is where you need to begin your testing as you will find several things in your pack you listed are actually redundant. One thing is CBA has MRT Accessory Functions in it now and that could be creating some minor overlaps in the scripts which will create some problems. Maybe not large ones but they can just run simultaneously.

    Also we quit using the RQ-11 mod because we found that the UAV spawned in the enemy troops and if you leave it up in an area for extended times then ALiVE would keep spawning and leaving those troops up and moving instead of virtualizing them.

    Much like @Friznit mentioned we declared sound mods a major no-no on our missions server for the same reason because they do all kinds of things that don't just work on the "clientside" as they are supposedly built to do.

    Sometimes its the little things that create major problems when they all start cascading into one. Regardless of the type of server that you have.

  16. 2 months ago

    @Yeti Did you ever get your server sorted out? Just curious as to what you might have found in your testing.

  17. I had real performance issues with the recent vanilla mission I made for Altis. Granted our virtual server only had 2Gb of RAM but even with 80-90 objectives for each side the RAM usage would be maxed out after just a minute or 2. I slowly removed every script I had running, then started removing modules etc and as soon as I cut the CQB module everything was fine.

    CQB was only set to 2% with no density and low static weapons but as soon as I added it back it would kill the RAM usage. As in the server would go from 70% RAM usage to over 100% just with 1 person loaded in at base.

    Have since upgraded the server RAM and the mission is running great with the CQB module, but that's the first time I've come across that. It may have had something to do with the fact I had about 12 or so blacklisted spots around the map. But I don't see how that could cause issues.

  18. Edited 2 months ago by marceldev89

    CQB causing that much of a jump in RAM usage isn't good. Perhaps we're trying to store too much in memory or something. Can you log a ticket on GitHub for that so that it's tracked and not forgotten?

  19. @marceldev89 we have noticed some issues recently with our missions not saving persistence and getting extremely bogged down as well. That is why I was interested in what @Yeti may have found. I will point our mission guys to what @JD_Wang mentioned and we will go over the CQB settings we have as they might be the ultimate culprit.

 

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